Meet Jo Townsend. Jo left school in year 10 and fell into a career in finance. Now, she's the CEO of Funds SA. Hear her fascinating story on the latest episode of Shares Not Shoes.
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Jo Townsend
Particularly when you're a CEO, everyone watches everything you do and say. And sometimes I just think, Oh, I wish I hadn't said that, or I wish I'd asked that question a different way. And there's absolutely nothing you can do about it in the moment. But what you can do is just think, Oh, if I had my time over, I would frame that question differently, or I wouldn't have had that reaction.
Camilla Love
Welcome, everyone, back to another episode of Shares Not Shoes, an insider's guide to careers in finance. I'm your host, Camilla Love, founder of F3, Future Females in Finance. Shares Not Shoes is a podcast whereby I interview some of my favourite people all with one thing in common, they work in finance. We lift the lid on who they are, how they came into a career in finance, and arm you with some knowledge about why a career in finance could be a good fit for you. I will promise that all my guests will share some amazing personal stories. We'll be open and honest and will inspire you. So let's go.
Camilla Love
I am really pleased to have today's guests on Shares Not Shoes and to share her wisdom with you all today. Not only has she been the CEO for the South Australian Government Investment Management Firm Funds SA, and is responsible for, I don't know, millions of people's retirement plans, but she's been the CEO there for eight years and she has worked as a fixed income portfolio manager, which I'm going to delve into a lot later, and headed operations at Rest Super. She has just announced she is taking a break from Funds SA and stepping out a little bit and doing some new things. So let's delve into that. So I thought it'd be a great way just to nab her as part of our CEO series to get her insights and wisdom for her time as CEO and obviously a real reflection and look back on her career. So welcome to Shares Not Shares, Jo Townsend.
Jo Townsend
Thank you very much.
Camilla Love
Really glad that you could join us today. I'm super excited to put a spotlight on your career at this point, as I said in my introduction. So maybe you can tell me a little bit about who you are personally and professionally and what you do from a day to day perspective.
Jo Townsend
I am a mum. I've got my son, Jake, who has just finished his university degree, a husband, a cat and a dog.
Camilla Love
Do the cat and dog get along?
Jo Townsend
The cat is very much the bully. We have to lock the cat in the laundry when we feed the dog, despite the fact that the dog is six times as big because the cat will bully the dog out.
Camilla Love
Of its food. Fair.
Jo Townsend
We're currently living in Adelaide, which has been fabulous. We moved here eight years ago for me to take the role at Funds SA. We actually don't have any family here. My husband and I come from Tasmanian originally. So between doing jobs in Tasmania, Sydney, and Adelaide, we've moved around quite a lot, so that's probably a family life. The opportunity to take the role here at Funds SA was really the driver for moving to Adelaide. That was an opportunity for me to lead an organization. Funds SA is not that large, but we have grown from 30 to about 70 people over the eight years I've been here. And for me, it's a really nice sized organization, and it's got a nice vibe with it. So I feel very blessed that I've had the opportunity to lead such a great organization for the past eight years.
Camilla Love
And thinking about the impact that you and your team have on the retirement of a huge number of South Australian government employees, how does that make you feel?
Jo Townsend
Well, I do have to correct you because it's not the millions that you use in your interest. Hundreds of thousands? Yeah. There's a couple of hundred thousand public sector employees. And it's a very important job managing other people's money. It doesn't matter whether you're managing 4 million or the 40 billion that we are managing. It's an incredible honour to be able to do that. We're quite a unique organisation because we're not just managing superannuation monies. We've actually got some clients in charitable organisations, and also we're managing money for insurance funds. So right across the public sector, which is really interesting because all the different clients will have different drivers behind their investment objectives and what they actually need to achieve.
Camilla Love
What gets you out of bed every morning to go to work?
Jo Townsend
My giant dog that I have to walk at 5 30 to.
Camilla Love
Start with. Totally. They're scratching at.
Jo Townsend
The door. I actually really like what I do. Not only do I work with a great bunch of people, but we're very lucky being able to do such an important job out of Adelaide. We sit in our boardroom and we have meetings and we look out over the Adelaide Hills, and I think everyone just really appreciates how lucky we are that we can do the job we do from Adelaide. It's not Sydney, it's not Melbourne, but it's the same flying time, Adelaide to Melbourne as it is Sydney to Melbourne. And now that everyone's starting traveling again, we've got a lot of international fund managers. They come in from London into Perth, and then they stop off in Adelaide, and they go to Melbourne and Sydney. So it's not like we're cut off at all. We travel quite a lot. I encourage everyone at Funds SA to travel, to meet people in the industry, to see what other people are doing. So it's a really quite a unique circumstance to be able to do what we do from Adelaide.
Camilla Love
Absolutely. So tell me a little bit about what the day in the life of a CEO looks like for you.
Jo Townsend
So I talk to people a lot.
Camilla Love
Yes. Is it lots and lots of meetings?
Jo Townsend
Yes, lots of meetings. I've had to learn over the years not to tell people what to do because that's my natural inclination. So when you're a CEO, you very much have to guide people and ask a lot of questions and just keep in touch with them rather than necessarily telling them what to do. So I have a lot of meetings with my staff at Funds SA. My role, from an investment perspective, I'm not the person who's making the recommendations and doing all the implementation anymore, but my role is very much a governance role. And so for example, I chair the Internal Investment Committee, which is the internal body that does a lot of the asset class reviews and strategy recommendations up to the board. In a typical day, I'll probably have meetings with some of our stakeholders. So there I'm talking about our board members, the different committees that we have. It might be someone inside of government that we're doing some work with. It might be one of our clients. Even if I'm working on something, I always say to everyone at FundsSA, my door is always open. So it's more about just being there and responding to whatever happens on the day.
Jo Townsend
So I don't always have my day planned out, except for the meetings. But yeah, I think just have to go with the flow more than anything else.
Camilla Love
Yeah, being flexible and making sure that you're putting out fires and supporting staff when you need to.
Jo Townsend
There's been a... Hopefully not too.
Camilla Love
Many fires. No, thankfully not too many fires. And so you said you mentioned that your staff has doubled, if not a little bit more than doubled under your watch over the last eight years. Tell me what other transformations did have happened in the organization through you and your governance.
Jo Townsend
Well, we basically really went back to basics when I first arrived. So we went through an exercise where the staff who were there at the time developed a set of values for the organization, and then we developed a set of behaviours that underpined that. And so I was very keen to ensure that the culture that we had within the organization was very client focused and very open and transparent. And so we did a lot of work just talking amongst ourselves, deciding what we wanted the organization to look like. And when we were recruiting people into the organization, we were very much recruiting for the mindset that they would bring and the approach that they would bring in terms of collaboration, for example. It was very explicit that we were not just going to hire people with strong technical skills. We were also looking for those soft skills and so I have a saying that I share with recruiters fairly early on, and it's that I only hire people who can play nicely in the sand pit with others. There's not.
Camilla Love
A lot of those out there. So is there a needle in a haystack?
Jo Townsend
So early on, it was very much around establishing the culture that we were looking for and to build upon that over time. There's a lot of administrative operational things that we had to do. We had to do a custodian transition. We wanted to do a big piece of work around data and analytics, but we had to have the foundations in place before we could do that. Probably the biggest growth within the organization has been within the investment team. And so that went from 7 to about 20 people, which looks as if it's really big growth. But we are not managing money internally. We don't think that we would have a competitive advantage of trying to attract people who were, for example, managing equities directly into Adelaide because that's a very competitive marketplace. So we are operating on a manager of managers basis. But nonetheless, we have been able to introduce additional capabilities into the investment function. For example, some co investing activities in private equity, more of a focus on trying to engage in direct property transactions. So that thing.
Camilla Love
And when you look back on your time, is there anything you're most proud of?
Jo Townsend
Look, Funt us A is a really nice place to work, but of course, I would say that. But it is a great place to work. So for such a small organization, I'm incredibly proud of everything that we have been able to achieve over the past eight years. So I think it'll be quite a shock when I don't have my office to go to every day and don't have people to talk to. So we'll see how that goes.
Camilla Love
Well, yeah, it is a bit of a shock to the system, but obviously there'll be so many new opportunities that are coming your way. It'll be great to see how you progress over the next little while because I guarantee you you're not finished yet, right?
Jo Townsend
So my plan, I keep telling people my plan is to not have a plan. I've never really had a break. I've never really had a decent break. I had six weeks off when I got married 33 years ago.
Jo Townsend
Shoot. Wow. Even when my son, Jake, was born, I think I had Matt leave of three or four weeks. Then I was back in the office because I was working for a small fixed interest manager at the time. I used to take him into the office and he used to sleep for three hours at a time.
Camilla Love
At least he was a good sleeper.
Jo Townsend
He was. Not so much these days, but he was back then. So I feel like I deserve a bit of a break. So my plan is to actually not commit to anything much for a period of time and then decide what I'm going to do. I can honestly say I'm actually not sure whether or not I'll take on another exact role or potentially just do some boards and investment committees and things. But I'm looking forward to actually thinking about that and making that decision further down the track.
Camilla Love
Well, that's exciting. Well, I hope you get some travel in or.
Jo Townsend
Some.
Camilla Love
Fun stuff. So stepping back a little bit, was it love at first sight for finance with you, or was it a slow burn?
Jo Townsend
Well, I fell into the finance industry completely by accident. So to go right back when I was growing up, school in country Tasmanian, the accepted wisdom was that you finished your 10 and you got yourself a job. I used to study really hard. I won the shorthand and the typing prize when I was in high school. Great.
Camilla Love
For the typist, Paul? Back in the '70s and '80s, seriously?
Jo Townsend
Yeah. I was a really good secretary.
Camilla Love
I was a really good secretary. Well, I'm so glad you were never a secretary.
Jo Townsend
No, I was. I was a really good secretary. I moved from Tasmania to Sydney a week after the '87 crash. He wasn't my husband, but he was soon to be my husband. Everything that we had was in the back of our hatchback S elica. We got on the boat, we went to Melbourne, we drove to Sydney. Within a week, we both had jobs and somewhere to live. I was doing temp jobs because I used to find that I was always looking for the next thing to do. So it suited me that I do jobs three months at a time or something and then just move on to the next one. And in the early 1990s, I got myself a job as a secretary in the marketing department at Rothchart. The job that I originally had, it wasn't exactly what I was looking for. And so I decided I was going to leave. And just after I'd announced that, one of the investors who was there at the time, they said, Oh, look, we've got this spare role on the treasury dealing floor working in the economics department. Would you like to go do that for a while?
Jo Townsend
And so I took on that role and I just t's like I was in love once I got there.
Camilla Love
Once you got there.
Jo Townsend
But it just took me a while to get there.
Camilla Love
Had to kiss a few frogs first.
Jo Townsend
Yeah. So that was great. And the lady I was working with at the time, she was very supportive. I realised when I was 24 years old or something that I'd actually left school far too early. And so because I'd left school at year 10, I couldn't automatically get in to do a degree part time. And so I had to do... It was then called the Securities Institute of Australia. I had to do a SIA course to prove that I was capable of studying at a tursury level. So I did that for two years part time whilst I was studying. And then I was able to apply for and got accepted into a mathematics and finance degree at UTS.
Camilla Love
And.
Jo Townsend
So while I was studying at Rothschild, and I was working as a secretary in the economics department, and obviously, because it was the economics department, there was lots of numbers. And I used to go down to the Bureau of Statistics at 11 30, and wait. These are the days when the ABC TV cameras used to be there, and used to fight to be the first person to...
Camilla Love
I don't know, but I'm sure.
Jo Townsend
It happened. And it was quite a bit of numerically based work. It wasn't just shorthand and typing, but I actually quite enjoyed that. So that's when I decided to do mathematics and finance. So then I was working and studying. I ended up working full-time, studying part time for 10 years. At the end of that, my husband said to me, You are going to take a break now, aren't you? And I said yes. Because I quite enjoyed studying once I started doing it properly. And I said, Yeah, I'll have a break for a while. I've done bits and pieces of short courses since, but I've actually never gone back to it. I think the whole 10 years of working and.
Camilla Love
Studying probably. Maybe this is the time to go back, do something different fun.
Jo Townsend
Well, yeah, I don't know what I would do, though. If I had my time over and I'd gone to university straight from school, I actually would have probably chosen something like architecture. But of course, when I was at high school, we used to do tech drawing with a ruler and a pencil. And these days, it's all...
Camilla Love
It's all CAD drawing on computers.
Jo Townsend
Yeah, so very different.
Camilla Love
So then you went into the treasury desk, right? How did you get into being a fixed income analyst and portfolio manager? And the reason why I ask this is because when I look around the market, there isn't a lot of females in fixed income. But fixed income, and a lot of people know this, is like the market itself is like three times the size of the equities market. So I don't understand why there isn't so much demand or willingness to go into that fixed income segment, particularly if you're a female, for example. So what was it about it that you loved?
Jo Townsend
Bonds are probably not seen as being as.
Camilla Love
Exciting as equities. Not sexy?
Jo Townsend
Yeah, not sexy. So that's probably part of it. I was in typical style back those days. I'd done that job for a while, and then I was starting to look for the next thing to do, and it wasn't coming. So I was thinking about going somewhere else to work. Then they offered me a job as a trainee, fixed interest dealer. And so it was a case of, yes, I was in the right place at the right time. And there was some people there who were willing to give me an opportunity and support me. But I used to work really hard as well to actually have that opportunity. And so they gave me a trainee dealer role, which I did, I think, probably for I don't know, I can't remember, it was too long ago, maybe 18 months or something. And then one of the gentlemen I was working with, he spent out and set up a boutique funds management company. So I went to work for him and another lady out of Rothschild. And by that stage, I was the fixed interest dealer. I was actually a director of that company as well. What I particularly liked about the bonds was I actually really liked the discipline of there's a bond pricing formula and you can calculate things like duration from bottom up.
Jo Townsend
Everything is very logic and it all just fits together. And that numerical aspect and the discipline of it, that just naturally sits well with the way that I think about things and the way I work.
Camilla Love
And the thing about managing bonds is actually all about the default risk. It's not necessarily about upside, right? So how is it when you look at a portfolio of bonds now, as an investment committee member or the chair of investment committee, how do you reflect on your time as a bond trader, and how you look at managing bond portfolios today?
Jo Townsend
So back in the days when that was my role, we were very much focused on duration. And the fixed interest market, or the requirement for fixed interest portfolio management, changed dramatically in the 1990s because bond yields had already been falling for a very long period of time. And at a really high level, there were people saying, well, you just need to be long duration. You're going to make money because bond yields are all they ever do is fall. And there wasn't a real need for credit management back in those days. And also the super funds, the few that were around then, they'd have a domestic fixed interest manager, and then they'd have an international fixed interest manager. Now, what was happening during that time is that clients, super funds, wanted globally diversified fixed interest, and they wanted credit management because there was a growing number of corporate iss coming into the market which weren't there necessarily 10 years beforehand. The style of fixed interest management that we used to undertake all of a sudden was out of favour. We were domestically focused, we were duration focused. And so we just got a bit caught out by the changing nature of the client appetite for fixed interest portfolios.
Jo Townsend
These days, when we're building fixed interest portfolios at Funds SA, we have dedicated duration managers, we have credit managers who have investment, great credit, or have high yield. So that's just one way of building fixed interest portfolios. Other people might do it other ways. So yes, you're right. It's a very big market, but it's also an asset class that was under an awful lot of stress, particularly late last year with the rising bond yields. I actually remember being around in 1994, and we all used to refer to that period as a great bond market crash. But last year was even more challenging if you were investing in bonds.
Camilla Love
Absolutely. And we can see that in performance, and you can see that in issuance and all that stuff. It's certainly interesting. So then after that, you went into rest, correct?
Jo Townsend
I ended up at rest. So I basically worked in funds management for about 10 years. So I was trading fixed interest. And what happened, 2002, was that value capital management, which was the boutique fixed interest manager, was closing down for those reasons that I talked about changes in market. And my husband and I were thinking about going back to Tasmanian to live. Now, the challenge that we had was that he worked in advertising and I worked in finance, which are probably two of the most underrepresented industries in Tas mania.
Camilla Love
Totally. Unless you're in tourism.
Jo Townsend
Yeah. We did a deal whereby if one of us could get a good job, we'd go back to Tas mania. And a job came up at the retirement benefits fund, which is effectively the state government public sector fund. And I remember going for that job. And one of the questions that they asked me was, you're going to miss being a fixed interest dealer, because they were working on a manager manager's basis. And I said, oh, look, if it turns out that I've done my last fixed interest deal, then that would I'd be entirely comfortable with that. But that was actually a big thing to say, because I did really like getting on the phone and buying and selling bonds and doing all those sorts of things. So that was a really big move for me because it took me away from funds management into superannuation, which is I've spent most of my career in now. So I was at the RBF for four years. We went back to Sydney four years and years later, and I worked at non government school super for a little while. And then I went to rest, and I was at rest for about seven years.
Camilla Love
And then you became a generalist in the investment management side?
Jo Townsend
Yeah, that's exactly right. So the thing about working in superannuation funds, particularly 10, 15 years ago, was that you had to do a little bit of everything. And so it was actually quite steep learning curve for me, going from being a fixed interest funds manager to understanding equities and understanding direct property. And they had a mortgage portfolio as well down at the RVF, so they had an asset consultant. Actually learning how to work with an asset consultant. And that was really where I first started going to board meetings and dealing with directors and investment committees and things like that.
Camilla Love
And so that set you up for the role that you're currently in?
Jo Townsend
Yes.
Camilla Love
Or about to step away from? Yes. So then was it hard to make the transition? And I'm always interested in this from a personal point of view. So how to make the transition from being the functional specialist, as you were at rest, to become the CEO. How did you make that transition? Because we've talked a lot in this series about the importance of culture, the importance of authentic leadership, the importance of imposter syndrome, particularly when you're making those jumps. What did you think about when you were making that decision?
Jo Townsend
So one of the biggest challenges for anyone who does a technical job is to then take on a management leadership role because most people get promoted because they're technically strong in an area. But it is a completely different skill set to be able to be a successful manager. And what quite often happens is people will get promoted above their former colleagues. And so you go from being everyone's friend to actually having to be the boss. And that can be really, really challenging. And some people can make the transition. But the biggest problem sometimes is that organisations don't provide sufficient support to people to actually help them to make that transition. So I was very lucky, particularly at rest, because they put a lot of effort into teaching people how to be managers and supporting them. And I had an executive coach for a lot of the time that I was at rest, which with the wisdom of hindsight, was just one of the best things. Because I remember sitting down with this particular lady once, and I was talking to her about it. So something that wasn't going quite right and why it wasn't working. And I was saying, That person should just do this or that.
Jo Townsend
And she's going, Well, there's your problem because you've got to stop telling people what to do. And I'm going, But I know what needs to be done. And she's going, Yes, but you're a manager and you're not actually helping to support that person by just telling them what to do. You need to guide them to figure out what the options are and what the best recommendation is. And yes, you can say to people, Why don't you think about that rather than that? Because I don't think that will work. But you've actually, even though it's going to take longer, you've actually got to be able to develop people.
Camilla Love
And you got to let them do it. You got to let them think or swim.
Jo Townsend
Yeah, no, that's right. And the other thing that is quite difficult for people at times is just to realise that everyone has a different way of doing things. And so I've been involved in a couple of different organisations with things like MICE Briggs, which is a great way of...
Camilla Love
What are you? Can I ask?
Jo Townsend
E STJ.
Camilla Love
I'm an ENTP.
Jo Townsend
Yes. So it's things like that. And when I was at rest, and I didn't realise this until after I'd done it, but I was hiring people at rest and they were all like me. Occasionally, I'd hire an ISTJ, but I was hiring people that were exactly like me. And I look at funds SA now and I've actually managed to hire an exec team, for example. There's great diversity. And so across the organization, we have conversations around, Why did you do it that way? I would have done this. It's like, Well, your way is not necessarily the only way. So one of the things that I did learn that was really valuable was just the ability to reflect. And sometimes you've just got to be brutally honest with yourself around the contribution you've made to an outcome that hasn't quite been ideal.
Camilla Love
And those reflection periods, that self reflection is early on in my career, I found that quite difficult to do. Now, because I'm much more comfortable in my own skin, it's much easier for me to do that whilst difficult to own up to half the emotions and things that you've done, much easier to reflect and say, Hey, I should have done it this way, or, Hey, maybe I need to go and apologise to this person because of this, or, shouldn't have said it that way, or whatever it is. And that's a really nice thing to understand, particularly if you've created a diverse executive team, the importance of not only... We talk about gender diversity here all the time, but neurodiversity, and diversity of culture, and diversity of background, and diversity of a multitude of different things, to actually get the best one out of everybody, but two for the organization.
Jo Townsend
Yeah, that's right. I 100 % agree with that. So particularly when you're a CEO, everyone watches everything you do and say. And sometimes I just think, Oh, I wish I hadn't said that, or I wish I'd asked that question a different way. And there's absolutely nothing you can do about it in the moment. But what you can do is just think, Oh, if I had my time over, I would frame that question differently, or I wouldn't have had that reaction, or something like that.
Camilla Love
But keeping to your true self as well, it is difficult to have that balance right. And I don't think anyone gets it right, whether they're the secretary or the CEO. So what keeps you up at night as CEO? Or maybe it's now what keeps you up at night as person going maybe traveling or something like that.
Camilla Love
It'd be interesting to see how you feel about the transition to the new CEO from you as sitting in the seat still.
Jo Townsend
So it was a really difficult decision for me to make. I have never left a job without having another one to go to. I've never been made redundant. And so for me, and a lot of people say this to me, work is a big part of who I am. And so this is why I want to keep my options open as to whether or not I go back to work because I could fall in a hole. I could fall completely in a hole. I'm hoping that doesn't happen because I've got a very long list of things that I want to do. But it was a really, really difficult decision for me to make. And I had to personally get comfortable with the uncertainty of not having a job to go to, not having an income, and not having that part of my identity So in terms of...
Camilla Love
But is it still keeping you up at night?
Jo Townsend
No. No, I'm actually sleeping really well now that I've made the decision and it's been announced. I'm actually sleeping really well.
Camilla Love
So then, and maybe this is a difficult question to reflect on, but what is your legacy there?
Jo Townsend
So Funds. S Ailey is a very well resourced organization, and we've got a lot of people that are very smart and very experienced that are now established in Adelaide managing money for the government. I actually hope that Funds SA's reputation is very strong. It's a very well regarded organisation. We're seen as a client of choice for investment managers because one of the things that we are quite clear on is that we do believe it's possible to add value using active investment managers. There's a lot of superfunds that because of their size or whatever have gone down the passive reach, a big driver for that has been fees. So what we've actually seen with the consolidation in the industry is that we now have access to some active investment managers that we wouldn't have been able to put money with a couple of years ago. I think why I hope that my legacy is that, you know, Fronts SA is seen as a great place to work, smart people doing a good job. So if that was true, then I'd be very happy with that.
Camilla Love
Great. I think that's a wonderful legacy to set. When you reflect on your career, was there a sliding doors moment or a point where you could have chosen one or the other and you could have turned out differently? And if so, could you tell a little bit about what it might have been?
Jo Townsend
Probably not. I've never been someone who can tell you what I want to do in five years' time.
Camilla Love
Neither can I. I like my options open.
Jo Townsend
Yeah. So we've moved around a bit. We've gone Hobart, Sydney, Hobart, Sydney, Adelaide. So that could be seen as one definition of taking a risk. And that's usually been driven by the roles that I've been offered. If I'd wanted to stay in Sydney, I could have done that. Would I have had the opportunity to be CEO if I'd stayed in Sydney? Maybe, maybe not. So I don't know about sliding doors, but just, I use the words, go with the flow again.
Camilla Love
Great. I love going with the flow. So one question I ask all my guests is about a piece of advice that they were given as part of their career from either a mentor or someone else that really resonated, whether it was the time that it was delivered or it was something that happened subsequent to utilising it. What's your reflection on that?
Jo Townsend
Probably one of the best pieces of advice is don't worry about the small things you can't control. I think about it often and I try to implement it, but I'm not always successful.
Camilla Love
It's practice makes perfect, Joe.
Jo Townsend
I do spend some time at an ordinary amount of time worrying about something that I shouldn't. But that's just how I am, because I worry about the impact that various things have on people and the organization's reputation. Of course.
Camilla Love
So sweating the small stuff.
Jo Townsend
Yeah.
Camilla Love
Don't sweat.
Jo Townsend
The small stuff. It's good advice, and I think about it often. Am I the best at implementing it? I suspect not. I still need to work on that.
Camilla Love
Okay, good. Good. Good. Okay, so towards the end of the episodes that we do, we do this quickfire round. Do you know anything about this?
Jo Townsend
Not really. And I'm incredibly bad at things like this. So if I just say pass, let's just move on.
Camilla Love
No. Okay. I don't think you're allowed to pass, though, Jo. So you need to say whatever is on your tongue, first thing that comes out. And it's funny because everyone's like one word answers or something like that, but actually it could go on for like five minutes. But we'll start at the top. So you ready? Okay, sound a bit apprehensive. If you could live in any country in the world, what would it be and why?
Jo Townsend
Great.
Camilla Love
And why?
Jo Townsend
Great food.
Camilla Love
Great. Fabulous. Let's think of the sun, beaches, food. I'll happily do with that. My favourite superhero is...
Jo Townsend
Wonder Woman.
Camilla Love
Why? Are you one of those?
Jo Townsend
No.
Camilla Love
Do you know lots of Wonder Women?
Jo Townsend
Well, I've got lots of fabulous girlfriends that I met in the finance industry, and they're all Wonder Women.
Camilla Love
Absolutely. Good shout out for all those, the cheer squad out there. My first investment was...
Jo Townsend
I'm not sure it's an investment, but it was an investment in my freedom. And it's a 1980s green hatchback Gemini.
Camilla Love
Oh, my gosh. So Gemini s were the car that everyone learned on. And they were like, hand me down, like, five times, six times by the time I got to get my Ls. All my friends had one, but I did not. But it was green, you said?
Jo Townsend
Yes.
Camilla Love
It was fabulous. Couldn't miss it?
Jo Townsend
No.
Camilla Love
And where did the freedom take you?
Jo Townsend
So I used to live in country Tas mania, and I used to work, one of my really early jobs was working in a hardware store, in the office of a hardware store. And so public transport didn't really exist those days, so it just meant I could drive and do things and got a mobile.
Camilla Love
Whenever you want, however you want. Great. At the moment, I have FOMO for what?
Jo Townsend
I actually don't think that I'm missing out on anything. Well, I don't have FOMO. If I want to go do something, I just.
Camilla Love
Go do it. Fabulous. Love that attitude. Okay, next question. If you had to invite anyone alive or dead to dinner, who would it be and why?
Jo Townsend
Can I just say my fabulous girlfriends? Because I love them all so.
Camilla Love
Much and we have a great time. Totally, absolutely. Why have anyone famous when you're going to have my famous.
Jo Townsend
Friends instead? You didn't use the word famous. I think you just.
Camilla Love
Said live or dead. Absolutely. Does not have to be. Particularly if you don't see them often enough. A lot.
Jo Townsend
Of them are in Sydney. One of them is here in Adelaide, which is fantastic. But yeah, most of them are in Sydney.
Camilla Love
So watch out a Saturday night near you. Next question, my favourite book is?
Jo Townsend
I don't know that I've got a favourite book, but I'm reading a great one at the moment, which is called Never Split the Difference. And it's written by an FBI negotiator. So there's lots of really interesting tips there about how to manage your relationships at home and at work.
Camilla Love
So I'm enjoying that. Never Split the Difference. And I'm sure there's some cracking stories.
Jo Townsend
Oh, there is. Yeah, I highly recommend it to everyone.
Camilla Love
Okay. I might have to go and download that as an audiobook. How would your friends describe you?
Jo Townsend
Black and white.
Camilla Love
Oh, great. You are what you are and that is it. Yes. Fabulous. The one piece of advice I'd tell my 20 year old self is?
Jo Townsend
Don't sweat the small stuff. Good.
Camilla Love
And the final question is, describe in three words why career in finance is fabulous.
Jo Townsend
So many opportunities.
Camilla Love
That's.
Jo Townsend
Great. Because there are so many opportunities and you just have to go with the flow.
Camilla Love
Absolutely. Well, Jo, that was fabulous. I reckon I could have picked your brain on a whole number of different things. But it was great to hear your beginnings of moving around doing lots of different things, having the variety in your roles, taking risks, your green Gemini, the legacy and the growth that you've had at Funds SA. And whilst we haven't known each other for a long time, I've always watched you for the last... I've been in the industry for 20 years and you've always had a wonderful reputation. So it's been a real pleasure of mine to interview you today and I look forward to seeing your next journey.
Jo Townsend
Thank you very much, Kamilla. I've really enjoyed talking to you, so thank you.
Camilla Love
The information that is in this podcast, we always talk about finance in this podcast, but it's not financial advice. It's actually really careers advice. If you really want financial advice, I recommend that you speak to a financial planner or a broker and work out your own personal circumstances with that. But this is all about careers advice and how finance would be a fabulous career for you.