Welcome Sandi Orleow. Sandi is an incredibly experienced professional with a portfolio career as a non executive director. Sandi shares how her career in finance started in South Africa and led her to Australia.
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The following is a transcript that has been created using AI technology so please forgive any grammatical imperfections.
Camilla Love
Welcome everyone, back to another episode of Shares Not Shoes, an Insider's guide to careers in finance. I'm your host, Camilla Love, founder of Future Females in Finance. Shares Not Shoes is a podcast whereby I interview someone of my favourite people, all with one thing in common. They work in finance. We lift a lid on who they are, how they came into a career in finance and arm you with some knowledge about why a career in finance could be a good fit for you.
Camilla Love
I will promise that all my guests will share some amazing personal stories, will be open and honest, and will inspire you. So let's go. Today's episode, I am super excited to introduce you to one of my favourite people in the superannuation and investment industry in Australia. She is a person who questions me, pushes me to think differently and gives me the support to challenge the status quo. She's energetic, passionate and with such a warm heart. It is Sandi Orleow. Thanks, Sandi, for joining me today on Shares Not Shoes.
Sandi Orleow
Hi, Camilla, so nice to be here with you.
Camilla Love
Sandi has a portfolio career now as a non executive director, but she started her career in South Africa prior to moving to Australia. And I look forward to hearing her journey today. So, Sandi, tell me a little bit about what you do, why you do it and what is the purpose and meaning for you, why you do what you do.
Sandi Orleow
Well, there's a lot of questions, Cam.
Camilla Love
It's a bit deep, isn't it? First question.
Sandi Orleow
So I have a portfolio career now, which means that I sit across a whole lot of different businesses and don't work with a single entity. So I have a board role on a superannuation fund. I have a government board role. I have a listed investment company board role. I sit down some association boards. And I love what I do. I love the fact that I have the opportunity to work with a number of organisations and I love the fact that I can work with them strategically in terms of sitting around the table and trying to contemplate what the future holds and how things should be supported going forward. That's where I am at the moment. My Genesis into a portfolio career started about seven years ago. I was working within a funds management business. I'd been working within investment consulting, funds management, and I saw sometimes great people and organisations weren't really given the opportunity to be great. So it was okay. How do I try and influence the environment and the culture to try and support environments for people to be great and to come to work and put the best self forward? And I thought that would be sitting on boards and committees and that was my Genesis to start to move from executive work into non-executive work where I am today.
Camilla Love
So you talk about culture and that's a really big word with lots of different concepts and I always describe it as the iceberg, right? So you only see a little bit at the top. But actually the culture is everything underneath the water and it means a lot of different things to a lot of different people and it's a sort of organic organism. So what do you look for when you're in the cultures of the organisations that you're working with to highlight whether they're a great organisation to work with or not.
Sandi Orleow
So in my executive work, I was involved a lot in manager research and product research, and part of that was actually researching the components that went into making an organisation great or being a good investor or partner for us going forward. And one of those things, we're trying to get your finger on what that environment is, what the secret source or the environment is, because at the end of the day, a lot of things are commoditized. We work in a great industry with lots of highly intelligent, competent people. Everyone, theoretically on paper, can do the job, but you almost need it to almost synthesise and come together so that you can be great in terms of what it's about. So even when I work with organisations and you look at culture, culture is not second, forget, it's kind of always needs to be looked after and monitored. I look at it in terms of speaking to the people, finding out their comfort of talking what the appetite is for growth and doing things exciting. I read a lot on social media, I read mainstream media. I use a lot of almost that mosaic theory of speaking to people that work with those organisations, in those organisations, for those organisations and kind of hear about what's the experience of dealing with someone, what's the issue, what should you be aware about?
Sandi Orleow
And I think when you're looking at culture, culture can exist differently at different parts of an organisation, but in essence you want to know what is the business or the organisation seeking to do and does the culture support it? And look, I'm a big believer. You can call the word culture. Culture feels like it's becoming a bit of a cliche word at the moment. It's almost like agile culture. What does it actually mean? Same thing I think it's got to do with the kind of place that you want to be involved in or something that supports it. And it doesn't always have to be good and happy and everyone kind of being nice to each other because you could choose to work in a culture that's highly aggressive and supportive of an aggressive growth agenda and everyone goes in and it's kind of made the best man succeed. And it's kind of a little bit of less supportive but more aggressive. And at a certain stage of a business that may be wrapped, but it's almost understanding what you're looking for, what's important to you, and then kind of factoring does that organisation have it, and am I seeing attributes of it or signs of it and anecdotal things that are happening?
Camilla Love
Yeah, that's right. And we talk a lot to University students and school students on this podcast and we talk about culture is something that is really led from the top. How do people actually analyse or size up leadership at the moment? Because there's a lot of change that's going in on the leadership mindset particularly. And it's all about authentic leadership and allowing you to bring your whole self to work. And it's really interesting over this cover period how we've been able to sort of move or shift the culture a little bit, to be a little bit more flexible and be a bit more meaningful to people in their everyday lives. So what sort of tips would you give for people to size up, particularly the leadership in reflection of culture? And what signals can leadership give to sizing that up?
Sandi Orleow
Again, as I said, I come with my own personal biases. Everyone has their own biases and styles of engagement that they have a preference to. And I think it's with an acknowledgment of understanding what your biases are and what things resonate with you versus others. And it might be different, but I think it still goes back to the same point that I said. It depends where the organisation is in its life cycle and what its agenda is in terms of what it's seeking to do. I could tell you on paper that I think the leadership of the future is one that is collaborative, that doesn't claim to have the answers, that kind of has a way to pull in the best of everyone and synthesise it. But in reality there will be companies at a certain stage that need leadership to kind of make the hard decisions to get going are less perceived to be collaborative. So I think it depends on life cycle, where business is and what they seeking to do, and what's fortunate is we're all different, and certain things work better with certain types of working styles than others. And I think as everyone contemplates where they want to go with their career, life, place of work, partner, things will be different for different people.
Sandi Orleow
And it's probably knowing almost what your values are and your priorities are and then recognising where you think things are going and what you want to be part of. And it's factoring that in. And then in terms of the actual leadership, you want people to kind of be living the values that they kind of ascribe to. And I think it's interesting you see a lot of people talking about now the priority of the great is it the great resignation or is it the great balance? Indeed, I think it goes on the notion of it's the whole of person. And definitely we're moving into a time where the whole of person is expected. And as the uni students come in. And as we have the new workforce coming to the fore, the whole priority of your workforce and life not being two separate things being there, you want the purpose to be evident, you want the organisations to share and respect the purpose that you subscribed to and it may be a drive for you actually joining the organisation because you value what they support. And if they don't have necessarily a project that they're supporting, do they expect and accept that their staff do recognise that they want to do volunteering and is the flexibility allowed in the structure?
Sandi Orleow
So I think that's the whole notion of, if you believe it's important that family comes first, you expect someone, your leader, to be taking off a bit of work and going to see their kids play sport or doing gym in the morning and walking in at nine or taking a gym class at one. I mean, when I got into the workforce, that wasn't done indeed. And now it's almost you're finding these Gen X's and these older leaders kind of saying you can't have one standard for yourself and another standard for someone else. You've got to almost kind of live the ethics and the ideals of the organisation and role model indeed.
Camilla Love
And it's funny because as I lead my team at Einvest, I am very cognizant of how I role model what I expect in the team. So I think it's true. You have your whole of self at work. I think your mind and body needs to be fit and healthy to be able to do that. We do believe that family does come first and I encourage everybody in my team to be at those important events with their kids and be able to pick them up from school and things like that. But you're right in that different cultures and different businesses fit different people. And I always talk about it, particularly when I'm doing panels at schools and on the podcast. You really need to go and try all these different cultures and organisations out to find what's right for you, because you're absolutely right that the individual needs to sit down and work out what's important to them before they get into the workforce or before they change companies, because if they don't know what's right for them and they go into an organisation and go, oh, this is not right for me, then that's sort of like lost time.
Sandi Orleow
And I think that it's super important just on that camp in terms of knowing what you want, sometimes it's hard to know exactly what you want. It's almost easier to know what you don't want. So I never look at things as actually a waste of time, to be quite honest, because I believe you learn from everything. So I think that mentality of kind of learning from failure, learning from trying, I cannot underestimate or underplay the importance of recognising that if mistakes are made or things aren't perfect. There's a lesson in that and it will play out and it will come to the fall.
Camilla Love
Absolutely. And you well know that I'm a testament to learning by doing and the ability to, if it's not working, stop. And here I'm going to put the word in pivot to something that may work differently. And so I'm very open to experimenting different things, and I think it's important for everybody else to take on that mindset.
Sandi Orleow
Absolutely.
Camilla Love
In your answer, you also talked about purpose. And we talk a lot about purpose in our podcast, because you've got to be able to get up every morning and say, yes, I'm going to work every day because I work for an organisation in the industry that has purpose. Talk to me about your perspective on why finance is a great career to have on that factor of purpose.
Sandi Orleow
It's interesting that the notion of finance because I always just wanted to go into business. It just was the notion I wasn't going in for purpose, I was going in because I loved business and I love to be involved in being on the decision making side, making things happen, being involved in that echelon of the environment and the industry. But what became more concerning, and I think what it's played out, is that with the Royal Commission and some of the things that have played out, finance almost kind of started losing the perception of it having a purpose or having a heart. And it was rarely the notion. It's disconnected to the rest of the society and it is profit motivated. It's capitalism at its worst and it's kind of greed. Do I want that? And it almost became binary, I don't want that. So I'm not doing finance. And interesting, I did a session for F Three and one of my daughters schools to cohort or via twelve students, and it was a startling revelation for me to hear these year twelve cohorts talking about thinking finance only clips the ticket. They didn't value the fact that you had more money to travel or do stuff, they just discounted that.
Sandi Orleow
And it wasn't a priority. And there was an absolute disillusionment with finance. It amazed me because I don't think I ever got into finance because I was greedy or kind of wanted to do it. I was always kind of recognising the value of understanding how businesses work, being part of business. And for me, the thing that crystallises was Paul Smith, the Exeo of CFA, gave a presentation on the purpose of finance and he spoke about it. And I think what he did was crystallise the words that a lot of us were thinking. But he pulled it together and the CFA contains a lot of that where it basically says finance is a Noble profession in essence, ensures that economies grow, that organisations make money, that they invest, that they produce, that people earn money, that they are able to function, that's the good and the oil that almost greases society to kind of allow it to happen. Because reality is everything costs money and things cost money. If it's not money, it is time, it's a resource. There's a trade off that happens. And finance took a bit of a turn in the last while where this perception of it has no purpose, it has no heart.
Sandi Orleow
I absolutely and totally disagree. Finance very much. Yes, it has the perception that it was disconnected from society. But what it does mean and what finance has done for me is ensure that any organisation that you go into, you can understand how it works, regardless of whether it's a charity, it's a stockbroker, it's a closed producer. You need to understand because you have to keep the lights on some way and you need to actually source the goods. And if you don't actually understand how that works and how that functions, it doesn't work.
Camilla Love
And that's a great synopsis, because I like you are very passionate about this industry, and I don't understand that perception because I've never seen that perception in action. We do all have a purpose, and it is 99% of us in finance put the client at the heart of every decision that we make. So as with all people and organisations, there's always that 1% that do the wrong thing. But that's not the perception of the rest of the industry. And I think that that's right. I mean, businesses can't take loans to grow and the financial profession can't facilitate those loans. The economy and people just in general would be way worse off.
Sandi Orleow
Absolutely. You've kind of got me on to kind of going on this area, because I go on the notion of people can be greedy and they can be hungry to accumulate assets and be money driven by assets. And that's fine, because that's their drive and that's their purpose. But that can be accommodated in any industry and that's not a blanket kind of thing. Finance does that. And maybe you want those people that actually don't tick your boxes because they might be the people that are incredible stock pickers. They give you outsize returns, and you basically are taking a bit of an incentive based where you invest alongside them and they do what they do because they are arrogant and aggressive and greedy. And you know what, that's fine for that part, but that is not indicative of what finance is.
Camilla Love
Indeed. Indeed, you mentioned Paul Smith and CFA. You do a lot with the CFA, particularly here in Australia. Why are you so involved here?
Sandi Orleow
I did a CFA qualification, so I'm a Chartered accountant qualification. That was my first foray when I entered into the business environment, but never practises a Chartered accountant. I use it as a groundwork to get into business. But when I immigrated, I didn't want to re qualify as a Chartered accountant because I wasn't practising as an accountant. I've moved into funds management at that stage. And what I needed was a global qualification which would allow me to enter into another market. We had a recognised qualification without going back to re qualify. And I did the CFA programme, which was back in 2003. And to be quite honest, in the early days, it actually didn't really make much of a difference. It kind of was on my resume. No one actually said to me, do you have a set? But I think what's interesting and I can't actually hit home more loudly, is those qualifications are the key to get you through the door. And just by the fact of having a Chartered Accountant degree and then having the CFA, which has a global relevance and recognition, kind of lets you legitimise you and gives you a seat at the table, and then it's up to you what you choose to do with it.
Sandi Orleow
So I've continued ongoing learning and I can't stress the importance of almost. When I said to you about almost, you make a call to go down one way and it's not the right way. I've got two daughters that are in uni now and they're not sure it's the right course that I'm doing. And I've kind of said to them, Whatever course you're doing, you're learning. You may not use it tomorrow. I never practise as a Chartered accountant. Now that I sit as a direct on businesses, the fact that I'm a Chartered accountant and I actually understand numbers are comfortable with risk in those areas. I cannot thank whoever the stars that enabled me to actually do that charge of the accounting degree, because it actually has set me up for the next stage of my career. So when we look at this whole notion of this 100 year life or this notion of multiple careers that people will have you kind of put the pieces in place so you could choose to do an arts degree or you could choose to do a finance degree or something, it may be not used in that very next job, but it will be a component.
Sandi Orleow
And as the world becomes more competitive and the requirement for application of knowledge, not necessarily because we all have computers and everything will be on hand. The fact of your multiple perspectives and learnings on different areas and different insights from different areas just make you stronger going forward.
Camilla Love
And that's a really great point to make because you get asked a lot. Will my marks make a difference at the end of University? And really, it's the fact that you've got a degree. I don't think anyone has asked me ever what my Econometrics 101 course marks were. So, yeah, it is, definitely. And that learning mindset. I think everybody needs to have that going forward, to be flexible and to be adaptable in their careers. So I think that that's a critical point to make.
Sandi Orleow
Absolutely.
Camilla Love
So talk to me about a trend that you're seeing in the finance industry right now and how that's influencing you and your role, sitting across multiple different organisations, whether that be superannuation and government and listed organisations.
Sandi Orleow
We've spoken by purpose. I think Anna Dougsky was Cop 26 just happening and the whole climate, responsible investing, stewardship, the whole notion of leaving the world a better place, or at least not allowing it to deteriorate further from where it actually is. And the responsibilities that we have to future generations kind of is front of mind of everyone. I mean, we're talking just off to Cop 26. That's particularly pertinent at this point in time indeed. But I think what's interesting is this whole notion of understanding the responsibilities that we have. And so if you look at what finance is dealing with at the moment, it's the whole notion of do banks lend to certain players? How do you keep reskilling people as you move out of certain industries, as we move to more sustainable industries going forward? So the reskilling aspect that's there people living longer.
Camilla Love
Health care and the impacts of ageing, I think is also an area that's extensive within the finance industry as well.
Sandi Orleow
It's major because the notion of you living longer, you need to fund it somehow. So it's kind of the notion of funding where you're going. So if I looked at a trend and when I look at my next learning will be is I will do either a formal course or an informal learning within the sustainable space or the impact space, because that area has grown, is changing so rapidly at the moment in terms of how you measure it, the different indices that I play, different structures, and I think to actually understand some of the foundations that are being there, as much as I read it, I come across in most of my boards from some perspective, it's dealt with. I think that if I kind of go back and invest a little bit in some learning and we're living in a time now, I can do sign up to cosera, see if they have a new SG course or market learning, I can go into that. I can do a bit of an immersion. So I get a bit of the foundations. I don't need to do a whole three year course and I can kind of set myself.
Sandi Orleow
So when the discussion happens, I can take it to the next level. So when I look at trends that are happening, I think a lot of that will be that, yeah, okay.
Camilla Love
And we talk about ESG and sustainability and impact a lot on the podcast and what we've seen at Cop 26 as well. And we know people who are there from an investment point of view as well, which I think is really exciting to have a seat at the table while all these global leaders are talking about it. And then the flow on effects of what does it mean in finance, because I think the next ten years we will definitely see some boundaries set here on lending on even like social impact housing and even just their micro things to think about. But how can the finance industry really help the transition of all our global economies into a more sustainable footprint? And I think that that's a really Noble thing for the industry to put their sites on and help everyone move to that.
Sandi Orleow
Absolutely.
Camilla Love
So I always ask my guests this last question and obviously you're going to be no different. But it's interesting. You've had a long and extensive career. You've got a lot of advice over your period of time working in the industry. What is the best career advice that you've been given and why did it resonate the most with you?
Sandi Orleow
I think in terms of the best career advice, you pick up advice wherever you go. And I've always kind of valued and always respect the diversity of opinions. So what advice that I've done is kind of recognised to listen to, listen to what people say, to hear the different perspectives, to kind of expose yourself to as diverse as you can actually be exposed to, so that you never become two tunnel vision in one perspective. And it may not be something you understand or share in the theme.
Camilla Love
Yeah.
Sandi Orleow
But the fact that you have insights to that, there is a different way to do it just makes your thinking and perspectives that much greater. So have translated that over time was always the notion of saying every person in every role, senior, junior, or wherever it is, has a perspective that brings to the table. And it's about giving that bandwidth and the potential to actually listen. So if I translate it too early in my career, it's probably that notion of putting yourself out there, subscribing to a whole lot of stuff that you might or may not use going forward to valuing that people are calm to some extent. So it might be a lot of desk research you do yourself so that when you go forward, you're actually doing that stuff. And I think that notion of not being so hard on yourself go forward and actually take learnings from everything and recognise that it's not life or death, everything is going to actually play towards making you more rounded, giving you a better perspective, and kind of just keep going forward, just keep going forward and sticking by what's important to you and what your values are.
Camilla Love
Yeah, and that's important. I think that's a great piece of advice and I hear that in you all the time. And the active listening piece is something that I always try to work on. I'm not very good at it and I'm sure you will know that I'm not very good at it, but I definitely try to actively listen and to actually find out the reason why the actual underlying so people tell you certain things but actually what is the actual underlying reason why they're telling you that? And getting great perspectives and different perspectives. It's hard because the group around you, you fall into group think and it's easy to stay in that spot. And it's actually hard for you to actually jump out of that piece and extend yourself into an area that you feel uncomfortable. It's really hard.
Sandi Orleow
I think that's excellent. While you're talking and have replayed it back to me, it comes a little bit with age, that notion of kind of understanding. But if you're not going to do that, it's almost just kind of recognising where you actually are.
Camilla Love
Yes. And people are not necessarily comfortable in their own cells either. So being an understanding where you are at that point in time is really important. You're right. Such great Nuggets here, Sandi. So at the end of each episode, we do this quick fire round so people can get to know you a little bit more. And are you happy to be part of that because it can make you feel uncomfortable. Here's the uncomfortable spot. Okay, so let's go.
Sandi Orleow
So the first question is my bucket list includes my bucket list includes probably going to a cop or 27 or 28 and being around the table and being involved with the calibre of people that have been attending those forums of being something that makes a difference to the future. I mean, the calibre of global interaction with global mind. So that's probably on my bucket list. I would love to be you and I.
Camilla Love
We can get tickets together. I don't know how we're going to wrangle our way in, but maybe we can pay money to it.
Sandi Orleow
The younger generations are more of a chance to kind of come with their perspective, be brave, know what you stand for and kind of own it.
Camilla Love
Yeah. Okay. So that's a great bucket list. So next question. My hidden talent is organising trips.
Sandi Orleow
I love to travel. And it's funny because a lot of my friends, when they're looking for something a little bit left field or something, that's a bit of an adventure. I get these calls to kind of say, we're thinking about this. What do you think we should do? What do you think about this? Which restaurant? We're kind of looking at that and I think it's becoming a bit of a passion project. I think you need to live life and kind of experience. And so I'm always on. Unfortunately, my husband and my family are very able allies or just kind of get ready to be taken along to new places or trying new things or doing that then good on them. So that's my hidden talent. It's covered field.
Camilla Love
No, I totally love it.
Sandi Orleow
My first investment was my first investment was in a share in a business and my father worked in that listed and that was going to list. And it was, do you want to put a little bit of money in it and kind of watch it. And it gave me the opportunity to kind of watch a business go off market, go on to market, see how the share price went, see what was going. So it was a good entree into investing and to be kind of maybe it was that they planted the seed. But thanks. I've always loved investing in markets. As I've got further on in my career, what I've done a lot more is probably invested and recognised great investors and invested into them and recognising that. Maybe when I can have a belief in a certain business, it's probably I don't have the time because I'm now working too hard to actually manage my portfolio as it's going. And I quite like the innovation space. So if I can put some money into like, new ideas, maybe a little bit of crypto learn when I'm going, I kind of quite like, that.
Camilla Love
Great. My favourite book is my favourite book.
Sandi Orleow
It's such a hard thing to actually say which is my favourite book because I love to read, but in reality I've gone from reading. Love the Harry Potter series. Consult more about that girl, The Dragon Tattoo. Loved that series. Read that. I've loved learning books. So Malcolm Gladwell outliers. Love that book.
Camilla Love
So good. Love, Malcolm.
Sandi Orleow
Success isn't necessarily everything that you do. Sometimes you need the environment to support what you're doing. I love Seth goddamn. I read The Purple Cow. Someone gave it to me on how you have to differentiate yourself. And Interestingly, Malcolm Goodwill, Seth, goddamn all these people. As I read their books, I kind of follow them and then they send their daily pearls of wisdom. So Ray Daniel wrote Principles.
Camilla Love
I haven't read that book yet.
Sandi Orleow
Ray Dalio. Yeah. Once you read it, you subscribe to it. I subscribe to a whole lot of stuff. I've got my pile of reading ready for Christmas reading. I've got Hollywood reading Edge. I've got The Fish Rocks from the Head.
Camilla Love
Oh, yes.
Sandi Orleow
I've got the secure board from Analybel. So I've got my hands some fictional stuff mixed in there. So I like science fiction. I read a bit of science fiction.
Camilla Love
I didn't know that about you.
Sandi Orleow
Yeah.
Camilla Love
There you go.
Sandi Orleow
Yeah.
Camilla Love
Okay. So there's lots. That's a big reading list for those people out there.
Sandi Orleow
I don't necessarily read all the books cover to cover. I can be reading multiple books and some of them unless it's a fictional book that you read from cover to cover. A lot of these other books are pearls of wisdom that you kind of keep going back to.
Camilla Love
Tell me something that no one knows about you.
Sandi Orleow
Oh my gosh. I have twin sisters. Identical twin sisters that are mirror twins. So one is left handed and one is right handed. One has a beauty spot on one side. One has a beauty spot on the other side.
Camilla Love
Get out.
Sandi Orleow
So that's very interesting. So that kind of opened up the whole kind of area of twins versus siblings and the connections that they have. And I am a big follower in spiritualism. I like spiritualism and meditation and meaningfulness, and that esoteric life beyond.
Camilla Love
Do you practise every day?
Sandi Orleow
No, it depends on the stages of laugh. I'd like to say that the years that I've got and the times I do it are great. Unfortunately, I'm not always that grounded to do it, but I always aspire to get there.
Camilla Love
It's on the hashtag goals list, right. If you had to invite anyone alive or dead to dinner, who would it be and why?
Sandi Orleow
I think I'm tossing up between David Attenborough Jane Goodall is the theme. Eddie Jaku, who just passed away on The Happiest Man.
Camilla Love
Have you read his book?
Sandi Orleow
Yes, I do. It's beautiful. I have his book, and I've listened to him talk. And just the perspective that he brings, it kind of always kind of brings you back to the roots of what you need to be looking at. So I think each of those kind of have those commonalities that they've just got such great perspectives and led such meaningful life and would love to be able to speak with them and just kind of hear what their perspectives are looking back on it all.
Camilla Love
Yeah. Just the pearls of wisdom that would come for even half an hour with them would be amazing. Absolutely. Wow. My last question is complete this sentence, a career in finance is it gives you the foundation.
Sandi Orleow
It sets you up to go into whatever you're going to do. So you'll never look back on studying finance and being able to understand numbers, whatever industry you choose to do, even if it's running your home. So cannot underplay the importance of being able to understand numbers.
Camilla Love
Yeah. And we talk about that all the time. You don't have to be a genius. You just need to understand it a little bit. I mean, even going to the shops, you need to understand the numbers. I think that's a really great Pearl of wisdom there's your own Pearl of wisdom that you're giving to everybody else today. So thank you very much. And that's the end of our podcast. And I've just really enjoyed our chat today, Sandi. So thank you very much for joining us on Shares Not Shoes and being so entertaining and just generous with your ideas and thoughts.
Sandi Orleow
Thanks, Kim. I love talking to you, as I always do. And I love the name Shares Not Shoes. So good on you, and I love the work that you're doing. So thank you very much.
Camilla Love
Well, hopefully we'll invite you back and give us some more pearls of wisdom. For more information on our guests on Shares Not Shoes and further episodes, head to Shares Notchoose.com. And for more information on what we do at F Three, head to F Three.com. Au, I look forward to you joining us. Next episode where we continue to interview some fabulous people just like Sandi here today and give you the inside scoop on careers in finance. Bye for now, you know the information that is in this podcast. We always talk about finance in this podcast but it's not financial advice. It's actually really careers advice. If you really want financial advice, I recommend that you speak to a financial planner or a broker and work out your own personal circumstances with that. But this is all about out careers advice and how finance will be a fabulous career for you.